Welcome to HR coffee time, a weekly podcast to help you have a successful and fulfilling HR career without working yourself into the ground, if we haven’t met before, hello, I’m your host Fay Wallis, a career coach with a background in HR. And I’m also the founder of Bright Sky Career Coaching. If you heard last week’s episode, you’ll know that a regular listener of the show called Devon, “hi Devon” if you’re listening, kindly gave me some brilliant ideas on what he thought would be useful for me to cover on the show for you. And hearing from Devon sparked an idea for me, which was to get real HR professionals on the show for you to hear from and to hopefully learn from.

Fay Wallis: 00:00:45

So, people just like you who are in the midst of their HR careers, and working really hard to do the best that they can. To try and find these guests. I emailed everyone who subscribes to receive my free weekly HR Coffee Time emails to ask if they’d be able to talk about any of the topics that Devon had suggested. I’m so grateful to everyone who replied, I was really overwhelmed by the response actually, including the person you’re about to meet today, Pam Molyneux.

Fay Wallis: 00:01:16

In today’s episode, Pam, very kindly talks us through what it’s like to work for an HR consultancy, from the perspective of having worked for a large HR consultancy business. And also from the perspective of working as an independent HR consultant. Pam dives into how she made the move from an in house role to becoming an HR Consultant, what she loves about HR consultancy, what the challenges are, and what the skills are that you need to become a great HR consultant.

Fay Wallis: 00:01:48

So whether you’ve been toying with the idea of becoming an HR consultant, you already are an HR consultant, but would like to hear some tips from someone else who’s experienced in this role. Or you’re just curious to hear what Pam has to say, because you like listening to the show every week, I really hope you’re going to enjoy this episode.

Fay Wallis: 00:02:10

Welcome to the show. Pam, it’s so lovely to have you here. Could we start off by having you introducing yourself and just telling us a little bit about your background?

Pam Molyneux: 00:02:20

Yes, certainly. Thank you so much for having me as well. So my name is Pam. And I have had a 25 year career in the HR world, but in very varied roles in that time, worked in-house within a business and then went into a large consultancy firm, then transferred out of that and went back into a charity in house HR role. And now I’m an independent HR consultant running my own business.

Fay Wallis: 00:02:48

Fantastic. It’s great to hear a bit about your background. And you’re very kindly going to be talking to us today about being an HR Consultant and working in HR consultancy. So before we properly dive into that topic, I thought it’s probably a good idea for us to just clarify what that difference is. So for anyone listening who might be quite early on in their HR career and isn’t really sure about the difference between an in-house HR role and an HR consultancy role. Would you mind just talking through what that difference is?

Pam Molyneux: 00:03:22

Yeah, certainly. So an in-house HR role, then that is where you would be dedicated to that company and ultimately to that management team. And that employee base itself you may obviously travel about but you’re dedicated to that company. With a HR consultancy role, you tend to have a portfolio of clients dependent on how the consultancies split up. So for example, when I worked in that large consultancy firm that I referred to, then I had around 50 to 70 clients on my portfolio at anytime within the Northwest.

Pam Molyneux: 00:04:00

And then every so often, you might get a project that might have been out of the area, because it needed to be picked up. But you’re literally going in and out of different companies as part of your role and as I say the in-house HR one is literally dedicated to that one company and that management team.

Fay Wallis: 00:04:18

Well, I hadn’t realised that you can have that many clients that you’re responsible you can see I haven’t really done HR consultancy in my time.

Pam Molyneux: 00:04:28

Yes and yeah, I mean, those roles were very varied always juggling lots happening with a good team behind me because again, you know, if all 50 clients on a Monday for whatever reason, all needed support, then there’s literally only so much that you can do in one day. So there was always an overspill if you like from head office, but yeah, on my particular territory, then that that’s the numbers that we would look after

Fay Wallis: 00:04:54

Well, I’m guessing that you must really like HR consultancy as you have now set up on your own as an HR consultant, so what is it that you really love about the work?

Pam Molyneux: 00:05:04

Erm I think for me, the independence ‘cause even when I was working in that consultancy firm, you still have that independence, you know, you get your client base, you manage your own diary, you know, it’s up to you to build those relationships. Of course, obviously, you’re working to the company’s requirements. So I love that independence. And that responsibility.

Pam Molyneux: 00:05:28

Likewise, as well, that flexibility around organising your diary. And just, you know, if you’re out on the road, if it you know, it’s a travelling consultancy role, then you can organise that, to where that best suits yourself, generally, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday would be the travelling days with a Monday or Friday being the admin at home days getting things sorted on the systems and any paperwork that needs to go out nowadays, you know, thanks to COVID that on the road, element is less, you know, sometimes it’s needed.

Pam Molyneux: 00:06:01

But you know, clients are happy to do things remotely nowadays. And therefore, you can support clients across the whole of the UK. And I think lastly, you know, one of the biggest things that I love is that variety, no two days are the same doesn’t get boring from that point of view, one day, but you could be dealing with all disciplinary cases, the day after, you could be talking about a large change programme that businesses face. And so yeah, for me, there’s lots to love about that consultancy side of things.

Fay Wallis: 00:06:28

As you’re talking, it’s also makes me think it must be really interesting getting to know about so many different types of businesses, it’s one of the things I really enjoy about being a coach is that it actually gives me a little bit of a insight into different organisations that I’m never going to get to work in. But it’s just fascinating hearing about the different sectors and industries and challenges and personalities. Is that something that you quite like as well?

Pam Molyneux: 00:06:58

Absolutely, you know, that variety as well, like you say, when you’ve worked in the in-house position, well regardless of what that is, whether it be HR, finance, sales, etc. When it’s in-house, obviously you’re moving from business to business, and you probably do a couple of years before you move on. Where with the consultancy. I remember one day that I’ve been into a funeral directors in the morning, and then in the afternoon, I went over to haulage company. And then the morning after I went to a large well known Holiday Park. So yeah, the variety was out of this world really. And you know, it’s great to reflect on on the different industry experience that that I have had over the years. And that’s really helped me as well.

Fay Wallis: 00:07:40

With all of that variety and the differences and being in an in-house role to a consultancy role. I’m sure that also brings challenges. So I can hear how much you love the work that you do. But it would be great if you wouldn’t mind sharing with us what some of the challenges are in taking on a consultancy role if you have been in an in-house role up until that point?

Pam Molyneux: 00:08:04

Yeah, I think I think you know, all the elements of what I love about consultancy, probably in the early days were the challenges, you know, that variety, for example, going from different industries, they’ve all got different requirements, they’ve all got a different culture, they’ve all got different trends that are happening at that particular time. So there’s an expectation by the client, when you sat in front of them that you know that business, you know, their industry, and you need to be professional about that you need to do your research, or you’re going into that business. So I think in the early days, it can feel quite overwhelming.

Pam Molyneux: 00:08:39

And so it’s about taking that one step at a time. And almost I got through that stage by imagining that this is like all of my different management team that I used to have and every single manager that manage each department had their own requirements, even though they were in the same business. Just so that it lessened the overwhelm in some respects and that I didn’t think oh my gosh, I’m never gonna be able to achieve this. So that’s how I manage that and got through that. But yeah, I think the variety of it in the early days can be a challenge and, you know, still to this day, you know, you’ve got lots going on, then you know, it can mean that there’s a lot of research you’ve got to keep up to date with with different things as well.

Pam Molyneux: 00:09:21

So I think that’s just working out a system that works for you and just being connected with the right resources as well so that you’ll make it easier for you. I think probably the other side of that as well where I said about that independence, that flexibility. It’s juggling all of that. So again, you know, when you’re in an in-house position, then you know what everybody works to, you know, the schedule internally, where when you’ve got all different clients to fit in.

Pam Molyneux: 00:09:50

They might all only be free on Tuesdays, just because that’s what the diary looks like. And that then obviously is very difficult when you’ve got lots that you’re dealing with. So I think some of the elements that I love about it in the early days were certainly challenges. So it’s just a matter of finding the best way to work through those.

Fay Wallis: 00:10:09

It sounds like being incredibly organised is going to be key to being a successful HR consultant, from what you’re saying, what are some of the other skills that you think makes a brilliant HR consultant?

Pam Molyneux: 00:10:23

Yeah, I think the organisation is absolutely critical. Because otherwise, you can just be buried underneath the inbox, the requirements and not really get to everything that you want to and that you want to achieve with your clients and for yourself. And I think the other element of it is, is pulling into your research skills. And if I liken that to investigations that most HR people will get involved in, you know, investigating, not leaving any stone unturned, you know, making sure that you keep asking those questions in that, you know, have I got enough information on this, as you would do in an investigation, it’s applying the same principle to the consultancy world in some respects, in that, you know, if I’m going into a manufacturing firm, for example, what is happening there, what different resources can I tap into?

Pam Molyneux: 00:11:17

Who’s within my network that maybe I can speak to that is in that industry, or has been previously and just really leaving no stone unturned? So there is that similarity from that perspective? I think that organisation that research, and I think also as well, listening, I think a lot of the time, we’ve probably heard it many times again, in that sometimes we listen, ready to respond, rather than listening to really understand what the requirements are to make sure that you understand the client’s requirements, we’ve got to we’ve got to listen, we’ve got to take that on board. And ultimately, we’re able to deliver the best service to them.

Fay Wallis: 00:11:59

It’s so helpful to hear what you think those critical skills are. Now that we’ve taken a look at what it might be like to be in a consultancy role instead of being in-house, what kind of essential skills are that you need to have to really make a success of that role, I would love to be able to ask you what your advice is, for anyone who’s listening who’s thinking, this sounds great. I think that I want to move into a HR consultancy role.

Pam Molyneux: 00:12:27

Yeah, I think one of the biggest pieces of learning that I’ve done myself through the consultancy path that I’ve taken, and ultimately I would recommend for anybody else to really try to get to grips with quite early on is that ultimately, it is that person’s business that you’re sat in front of. So you know, whether that be the MD, whether that be you know, the operations manager, whoever it is that you’re going to see. And the influence that you have is best through giving them all the options.

Pam Molyneux: 00:13:04

Were when you’re in internal, you’re all probably singing from the same hymn sheet or you know, there or there abouts, you are on board with that strategy, and you know, the direction that the business is going in, where with the consultancy roles. That person that you’re seeing your contact, they’ve got many other hats that they’ve probably got to wear or people that they need to consult with. And because you’re potentially parachuting in dipping in, dipping out, etc, you don’t necessarily have all of the detail, of course, you’re going to have to learn some of that to be able to make an informed decision or give the best advice.

Pam Molyneux: 00:13:40

But ultimately giving them the options of this is absolutely the safest route to take doing this, you’re going to minimise the risk as much as possible. By going down this route, well, it’s it’s doable, it’s a lot more risky. And if you’ve got going to take that route, these are some of the consequences that that might be whether that be financial consequences, whether that might be impactful reputation, etc. So I think that is one of the biggest mindset shifts that I feel that I had to take and still do. I’ve got to remember that it’s their decision ultimately. And we don’t necessarily have the same influence that maybe we do have, when we’re on that in house position, we can just give them all the options and then ultimately guide them in the best way down that route.

Fay Wallis: 00:14:28

That’s so interesting to hear. I can imagine that might feel a bit frustrating sometimes for someone who’s not used to that and who has just made the switch. So thank you again for sharing that with us as well. Pam, I’d love to know how you made the transition initially. So I know you were in house HR to begin with and then you move to the large consultancy that you mentioned to begin with. How did you make that move?

Pam Molyneux: 00:14:56

I’d been in the IT world and for many years and one of the senior managers left that business and went to a very similar position in another IT business. And I’ve been there for a very short period of time and the commute that it should have been turned out to be very different. And I was travelling probably three hours a day, and that was pre having family. And it was just something that I did not want to be doing. And I couldn’t envisage myself continuing to do that commute and doing that daily commute. I think when you’re travelling about is so different, you expect that, but when you’re just doing that daily commute, it really wasn’t something that I wanted to do.

Pam Molyneux: 00:15:42

So I was really lucky and saw an advert and it was home based but, you know, regional travelling about. And it was working for a consultancy firm that’s well known within the industry. And I thought, you know, gosh, this is like one of those ticket items on the career list. You know, I’d be crazy not to apply because it you know, it satisfied several of those needs. And that’s how that’s how I got into the consultancy world and spent 9-10 years in that world. So you know, it was it was definitely the right decision. And you know, I loved loved doing what I did.

Fay Wallis: 00:16:18

I think that’s probably going to be reassuring for people listening to know that you can just go down traditional routes to get an HR consultancy role if you want to start off by working for one of the larger organisations. But as you can probably guess that’s gonna lead me on to my next question, which is, how did you decide that you wanted to set up your own HR consultancy and be an independent HR consultant?

Pam Molyneux: 00:16:43

Yeah, I think because over the years, I’m a great believer that everything I’ve done and everything that’s happened, whether that be a really positive experience, or maybe a less positive experience, it all leads you to a place to where ultimately your dream might be. And I’ve always had this vision of setting up my own consultancy business at some point. And over the years, when things have gone successfully, or maybe not. Within those positions, you kind of build up that position of you know, that thought process of if I was doing this my own way, this is what I would do.

Pam Molyneux: 00:17:18

And then ultimately, I got to a point in life where if I don’t do it now, I’ll never do it, there’s been some significant personal things that have happened in my life, we’d lost quite a few quite key members of the family and you start to think about things don’t you and what you do with your life. And ultimately, then that’s when I decided that that’s what I wanted to do. So I took the plunge. I’m supported by my family, which I’m really lucky about. And you know, for me, it’s been the right decision. I work hard every single day no different to what I did when I was in in-house roles and I get the benefits off the back of that. So it’s definitely been worth making that transition.

Fay Wallis: 00:18:03

And I know because obviously I have my own business, that the challenges in setting up on your own are very different to moving into a role where you’re working for somebody else. Would you be happy just to share what some of those challenges were around setting up your own business?

Pam Molyneux: 00:18:22

Yeah, certainly, I think the subject matter of HR is something that I’ve got 25 years experience in and you know that you keep up to date with it, you’ve got ways of, you know, making sure that you are at the top of the game all the time. But the business side of it, never done that before. Something, again, your research skills come into play, which is really important. But I think the massive thing with this is surrounding yourself by the people that are experts in what they do. I tried to do it all myself at the beginning, all my accounts, all the setting up with the revenue, social media, everything like that.

Pam Molyneux: 00:19:03

And there became a time where I could not manage all of that, because then the work comes in you then need to be delivering in your work in in your business. Because otherwise, if you don’t, then you’re not going to get the bills paid and get the money coming in. So I think that to me, was that the biggest challenge to overcome, and it probably took me about nine months before I got to that point of I need to do something about this now I can’t carry on.

Pam Molyneux: 00:19:26

So if I had that time again, if I was you know, passing on any lessons learned, it would be surround yourself by those people by those experts. You know, having that accountant having your social media, you’re having the IT people etc. So, yeah, that would be one of the challenges that I faced and you know that those lessons work that I would pass on to anybody that’s thinking about it.

Fay Wallis: 00:19:52

That definitely resonates with my experience as well Pam I think me personally when I decided to work for myself as a career coach, I was just so naive about what would be involved in working for myself. I mean, it was many years ago now. So luckily, I’ve learned so much along the way. I think for me, it was the whole marketing and business development piece that I just knew nothing about. I had the coaching skills, but I didn’t really know anything about marketing or promoting your services. Because I think I just thought, Oh, yes, I didn’t know much about social media at the time, I think all I have to really do is ask my sister who’s brilliant at social media, what I should post, and then everyone will realise that there’s this great service they can tap into, and then I’ll get clients that way.

Fay Wallis: 00:20:45

That’s not really how it works at all. So I think my first year probably in business was just this huge learning curve, about the fact that you have to get comfortable promoting yourself, and you have to put down some solid foundations like whether that be a website or materials that you’re able to send out to people that explain what your services are. And oh, gosh, yes, definitely having an accountant. There’s no way I could have attempted to have done all the bookwork myself, I’m very impressed that you tried covering that whole part of your business yourself.

Pam Molyneux: 00:21:18

Yeah, I suppose I was lucky. In my early days, I started out in the finance world. And so started doing qualifications and done books along the way, just basic accounting but family members, and also as part of the treasurer role that I used to volunteer in. And so that’s where I thought I’ll be okay, fine. But when it came to doing the VAT returns, and all the revenue things, I was like, Oh, this is scary. So for me it’s, it’s an investment, but it’s one that I don’t have to worry about, you know that they just do what they do and do what they do best. And I can get on with what I need to do.

Fay Wallis: 00:21:56

Absolutely. And the thing that’s coming through loud and clear here as well is the variety that you’ve been mentioning, I suppose throughout all of our time today. So there’s all this variety if you decide to go and work for a larger HR consultancy firm, but then if you decide, oh, actually, I want to set up on my own as an independent HR consultant. Well, that brings you variety in a whole other way. Because it means you have to learn about running a business as well, which can be a really exciting challenge. scary at times, but definitely exciting as well.

Fay Wallis: 00:22:31

And for anyone listening today, if after hearing all of Pam’s experience and advice, you decide to make the switch and either become a consultant in a larger, firm or setup on your own, Pam, and I would absolutely love to hear from you. It’s always amazing to get feedback on the show. So please do get in touch and let us know if this has resonated with you or encouraged you to take any action. But that brings me to not quite my final question. But nearly my final question. As you know, Pam, I always ask every guest if they have got a nonfiction book recommendation, would you be happy to share what yours is?

Pam Molyneux: 00:23:10

Yes, certainly, I’ve always got a book on the go and my favourite one. It’s called “The Gap and The Gain” by Dan Sullivan. And it’s all about high achievers. And basically that the essence of it is that the gap is all about where unsuccessful people might focus their time and attention on and the gain is where successful people focus on that and you know, always pushing forward even when there’s challenges. So yeah, that’s certainly one that I’m enjoying at the moment learning a lot from it. And that personal development space is a really important one.

Fay Wallis: 00:23:45

Thank you for the recommendation. And I will pop a link to that book in the show notes. So that for anyone listening who is also thinking, Oh, that sounded good. If you want to take a look at it, all you’ll have to do is click on the link. But that brings me to my final question for today. So back in episode 56, I talked to Pete Colby about collective consultations for redundancies. And as we were talking, we were talking about the fact that it can involve a lot of work and it can feel overwhelming if it’s the first time as an in -house HR person you have ever had to handle that situation.

Fay Wallis: 00:24:25

So one thing that came up during our conversation was the fact that you haven’t got to do it on your own. You can ask the business if you can bring in outside support. So many people listening today may already have HR consultancies that they tap into for that additional support. But if they haven’t, and they think, Oh, I really liked the sound of Pam, she sounds great. And I could do with some extra help right now. What would be the best way of them getting in touch with you Pam or finding out more about your business?

Pam Molyneux: 00:24:58

Yes, certainly. So and they can drop me an email or they can connect with me on LinkedIn. Or on my website, I’ve got the usual contact page

Fay Wallis: 00:25:08

fantastic. So I’ll make sure that I put a link to your LinkedIn profile and links to your website in the show notes. And I should probably just clarify, it’s not just redundancies that you can, that you can help with sorry, it’s just because I was thinking of that episode that that sprung to mind. Of course, it’s any sort of HR project or challenge or issue that someone may be experiencing that they would be able to tap into your knowledge and expertise and support.

Fay Wallis: 00:25:35

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today, Pam, it has been an absolute pleasure, getting to know you a little bit better, and also having you share all of this fantastic advice and experience with the HR coffee time audience.

Pam Molyneux: 00:25:49

That’s been lovely. Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, that’s been great. Thank you.

Fay Wallis: 00:25:55

I hope you enjoyed hearing from Pam today. One thing that I didn’t ask her while we were talking was what the name is of her business. It is PM Business Support Services. So I’ll make sure that I put a link to her LinkedIn profile and also to her business in the shownotes for you. And if like Devon, who I mentioned at the very beginning of the episode, you have any ideas for me on what you think would be good for me to cover on HR Coffee Time, please do always let me know.